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The most important part is resilience. You will have good time, you'll have bad time. You will have good patches, you'll have bad patches. You must not give up. So power consumption if you see we are today almost 34 35% less than what we were 10 years back. These four sectors have been covered uh for the CCTS targets. Now all the individual plants have been given targets. If you see we published our first sustainability report in 2016 17 when people were not even talking about it industry we were the first to do that. Mhm. Hi uh uh welcome sir. So uh welcome everyone uh to 2° C a fits all podcast on sustainability and climate accent uh where we invite industry veteran guests who has worked in the field of sustainability and climate actions and today uh I am your host Anand uh CEO of fits all today uh with us is uh Mr. Anil uh Makari he has almost five decades of experience across uh tire industries uh across globe in many countries and uh he has moved from a background where he has handled manufacturing across this industry to now looking after sustainability across these industries and uh I am very very sure that during this next half an hour uh we will get to learn lot of ground level integrities and details integrities and details about how is sustainability working in this big conglomerates and organizations. So very very happy to welcome you sir. Thank you very much. Uh so uh we'll start with little bit about your background uh so that uh our audience knows uh about you personally they can connect and then we'll move towards this topic of sustainability and everything else. Sure. Thank you very much first of all for inviting me here. uh come from a very small town where Taj was built Agra. Okay. They born and bought him in Agra. My dad was in defense. Mhm. And mom was a school teacher. Mhm. Did my initial education in Agra and then post that I did my chemical engineering from Chandigar Punjab University Chandigar and uh started my career way back 46 years ago with Jetires in their mother plant in Kangari. Okay. worked there for around 3 years and uh you know green pastures moved to Goodyear International and came to Goodier's only plant at that time in 1982. Mhm. And worked in that with that company for almost 21 years in multiple locations within India and outside India. Mhm. Uh was all in all a design person. I was always into tire designing. Okay. Tire designing, process control, technology development. Mhm. All those were my my expertise in my field. Mhm. It was um up until 1999 when I was in Orurangabad. Uh suddenly the thought came that why don't I start running the plant which I have been part of building it up. Mhm. So I took over manufacturing responsibilities for Orangabad plant. Mhm. And from there I became the administration head or the unit head for Orangabad. Mhm. And from there moved back to Jatar as the vice president operations for Barnore plant, the Golier plant. Worked there for almost 3 three and a half years. Then moved to Rajasthan plant for almost 4 and a half years. Mhm. Then went to Mexico as the business head for almost a year. Mhm. And then came back and worked in Mysore. So virtually all the plants I've added. And after around 11 12 years of being the vice president operations um my bosses asked me that why don't you look after the manufacturing for the whole corporation. Okay. So I started uh looking after the manufacturing operations for all the 13 plants in India and Mexico as director manufacturing. Okay. So it was up until 2030 2023 which was almost 10 years of my manufacturing uh tenure. Again they asked me that I've done enough of manufacturing and we had initiated all the movement of sustainability while I was heading manufacturing. So this opportunity came that you had the sustainability for the whole group. Mhm. So very exciting and very learning uh experience. Now I look after the sustainability efforts for paper, cement, dairy. Mhm. Um food tire. So it's it's very very interesting. M a lot of new learnings at this age which which keeps you going which so that's that's precisely the background and uh although I'm still part of the JK sty team and support the group for uh for sustainability efforts. Mhm. So uh while before the podcast uh we were discussing about your stint at your Rajasthan plantan plant and uh the frugal innovations that you started carrying out before even sustainility was not a buzz word. I think it's ingrained in India. So this is a word sustainity as a word has started coming in last 10 years 15 years very aggressively. But I think uh we as an Indian we used to practice this a lot correct in our day-to-day life and that was quite an interesting example. I would like you to share that example with the audience also uh of this Rajasthan plant how you guys ingrained that I think around 20 years 30 40 years before. No this is this was 2006 2020 20 years or 2006 2007 and that time it was not even target maybe not as a target suddenly but not even a buzz that time. Yeah it was not a buzz. See uh there is a very old saying which says uh you know necessity is mother of invention as they always say. Yes. So I I have seen that period in Kakoli and lot of my colleague and team members have seen it that the only source of water we had in Rajasthan was that lake. Okay. There is one lake, Ry summer lake, the Asia's largest man-made lake. Okay. Um, and that lake was supposed to supply water to the plant for operations. That lake went dry. Okay. Dry means bone dry. You could play cricket on top of the surface, bottom surface. So, we had to drill pumps into that to to suck water which was not possible. Mhm. So that was the period 20056 when we used to bring water from 80 85 km on bulockarts. Okay. So each each tanker having 6k or 12k of those those tanker loads being driven by bulkards because that's a very remote area and our consumption those days somewhere around 1,400 to 1500 kl per day. So you can imagine the amount of time and money and difficulty it had to get that kind of water availability for plants to run and also you have more than 450 500 families who are living as part of the the the the stabiliz establishment there. So how do you provide water to them? Mhm. So when I took over that uh job we were see production continues if the systems are in place equipment is working out of the four M three M are taken care fourth automatically works. Yes. So what was important that how do we get this place safer or a risk mitigation kind of a thought that how do we bring the water down. Mhm. M so I very clearly remember in 2007 I was making a presentation to the senior management about what do we want to do for water in this plant. Mhm. We were consuming roughly around 600 kale for plant at that time. Mhm. And we said we'll bring and start uh the the program Mhm. to get this number of 6K per ton to less than 2.5 kale per ton. Okay. That means from 1200 kale to 500 kale almost 60%. So we wanted to we we created an operation 500 that was the name we gave and I must say the team at that plant was very committed because they knew what is the importance of water. Mhm. So that's the culture you know which helps you in achieving these kind of things. And we started working. Mhm. And we did not make any major investment. This was purely controls monitoring. Mh. We used to run that plant with nine cooling towers. Mhm. We slowly start working on the efficiency of cooling towers. Finally came down to one cooling tower from 9 to1. Yeah. That that plant today runs with one cooling tower. And in 6 to 8 months time we came down to almost 450 kl which was less than 2.5. Oh. Then we took the next step of moving to less than two and then less than one. Today that plant is a global benchmark on water. There have been lot of studies and lot of awards to receive for that plant and we run for process virtually zero. Whatever water is used in that plant is only for domestic purposes that is for canteen and food and hand wash. Okay. Rest every water is recycled. Great. So this is the condition of that plant. Now we trying to horizontally deploy this practice from 2007 onwards for other plants and JK tire on on consolidated basis for all plants put together still is a global benchmark on water consumption. Yeah. And and it's a matter of very great pride that we are able to do that and and not much investment. That's the best part. Not much investment. You have to be only concerned that this is important and must be controlled. Yes. I while listening to you, I am feeling proud of such innovations which is happening at the ground at in India at least and I think everywhere it's something not even across industry other industries can also learn from such practices. Correct. This is not sustainability. This this is not. Okay. Today when you talk about sustainability and water crisis, it becomes a major part. Yes. But in 2007, we did not have that thought. No. Yes. Yes. We wanted to make sure that the long-term risk of this plant survival is mitigated. Mhm. Because if you don't have water, you can't run the plant. Yes. Yeah. And I think of late there has been lot of uh because it's just related to this topic uh the water crisis even the people are talking about cleaning of Yamna Agra I think I we used to learn we when we used to visit Agra for Taj I think it's a complete ecosystems and industries are playing a great role in that community level and I think government and industries they are taking a great role and I think we are seeing lot of progress in that front in water conservation. So although there were some icebreaker questions already I think we know each other very well and audience we but still uh you have spent almost 45 46 years in the automotive sector. If you just want to summarize in four five words your journey uh of this five see it's been a very straightforward journey I have I've virtually worked in all aspects of tire business starting from from the tire design to compound design to process design all all the areas have been involved and u I think for any professional any any person to continue to grow in his career and I'm not talking grow in terms of position or or financial to to learn to to stay afloat with the what is happening in the world around you. The most important part is resilience. You will have good time you'll have bad time. You will have good patches, you'll have bad patches. You must not give up. That's one one aspect of any professional career which you keep in your mind that okay today you're not doing well tomorrow you will do well that resilience must be there in somebody's mind everybody's mind that nothing is permanent it will change it will change second continue to learn read as much as you can now with with age catching up I I am not able to read that much but till about four or five years I used to read at least two to three books a month. Oh, I would finish that. Even today I try at least finishing one in a month. Uh that's the second thing which keeps you updated and what's happening around and always have one personal interest. Mhm. I mean industry is one, business is one, job is one but always have one personal interest which keeps you motivated and when you're tired you can just keep everything aside and focus your mind on that. It's one of the biggest relaxent. That's what my personal experience is. And is that for you books right now or something? No, I I'm a hardcore music lover. I've done theater for for many many years in in my university days. So I I prefer to go for some good classical music and uh relax. Okay. So poetry, poems, all that is surrounded by it. M but fundamentally I love to play with music. Okay, great. So you that's a big accent. I think in that case most of the parties you would be like center of attraction in that case. Time next you were telling something else. No, that was that was one I mean in anybody's career these phases are very very important and you will have I mean there are so many stories about motivational speaker so many things about behavioral sciences so many things about uh continuous learning and all that end of the day if you are confident about yourself you know what you're doing and you have that patience in yourself that okay whatever I'm doing today is not yielding result but we'll do it tomorrow so so that kind of resilience and and keenness to learn and relax. I think it takes care of that. Yes, completely agree and aligned. Uh so I think that's what has kept us motivated and uh just wanted to add to that. uh if uh continue to experiment also in that sense being the part of the startup uh world that we uh every day we we get to meet some uh new challenges, new personalities and we get to learn a lot from that and also that keeps us going even during our downtime. True. I think we at for we are doing something for the larger good right now for example in sustainability we are doing something for the environment for our future generation. Correct. Maybe we might not get the result but our future generation will definitely same thing. So yeah. So just coming to that point now sustainability because uh 46 years career uh of your in uh JK tires good and industries how uh what was your first uh kind of uh interaction or where you entered into this sustainability field and what got you interested in this? Yeah that's an interesting subject. See 2007 to I was in in Rajasthan plant from 2006 to 2010. Mhm. And we saw that phase of water scarcity and we we came out of it after a lot of struggle. Mhm. Then 2013 when I took over as the manufacturing director for all the Jetire plants. We started thinking as to how do we improve our efficiencies. Okay. How do we make see There was no manufacturing department per se. When I took over this job, I was the first manufacturing corporate head for the company. So we started thinking as to how do we add value because plants are operating, plants are going to be producing every day. They have their own systems. All plants have well established system. So what do we do more to make sure that manufacturing as a vertical contributes to the company? Okay. And it was then in 2013 for the first time we did our carbon footprint verification. Okay. So tire carbon footprint verification was done first time in 20134. Okay. At that time nobody was even thinking about it. Ah yes. And I very clearly remember the figure because I used to drive it myself. We were at 1.82 ton of CO2 per ton of production. Okay. Today when I look back at FY25 concluded we ended the whole year at 74 almost. So this is almost 60% reduction and this includes this includes the new Cavendish plant which we took over from Vlas. Mhm. Which had a power plant. Okay. So it was a coal based power plant. We were consuming almost 300 tons of coal every day. Okay. So doing all that if I look at JKR standalone leaving the caves aside we ended at 0.54 1.82 was only JK because there were no cavities that time so we ended at 0.54 so that's how the sustainability journey started because it all to me meant that we need to continue to improve on energy because it is cost. Mhm. I I very very distinctly remember we were sitting in a meeting and our chairman Dr. Singa is I mean he I mean his wisdoms are unmatchable. He he just said to me once that uh we pay more than 400 crores of power bill every year 1% saving on that can add directly to the bottom line. Mhm. And I mean it kind of just stuck to the heart that yes this is an area we need to work upon. So I while we were in in when I was in in Rajasthan our project of water was almost getting over and we continued to excel further on water. So where does the water get consumed other than the canteen and horiculture and all that was boiler. Uh so you you put water into the boiler to make steam and you consume steam. So more steam you consume. Mhm. More water you need. Mhm. So we started working on steam to reduce steam. We used to use steam 2.8 2.9 kg per kg. We said we'll work on a target of bringing it below two. Okay. So we came to 1.99. Then we started working on it. We came to 1.5. Today our best plants operate at 1.1. Okay. And the worst plants operate around 1.7. Mhm. So all those days of 3.5, 3.6, 2.8 are gone. Mhm. So once you do that, you use that much of less coal. So when you do that much of less coal, you have less GH. Yes. When you use less coal, when you use less water, you need less power to run that. So you less power consumption. Less power. So power consumption if you see we are today almost 34 35% less than what we were 10 years back. Okay. And uh in the energy consumption in terms of vigaw we are probably the lowest in the world. Oh correct. I I can't say by guarantee because the data is not fully available and you can't but if I look at the BRSR which is now declared in India and the sustainability reports which are declared globally uh the gigajal pattern we stay at the best level. So this is this this adds a lot of value to the bottom line. Yes. Yes. And then that's how the sustainability started getting into thought but sustainability we were only addressing one pillar which was environment. Environment. Yes. And that was the thought that we will continue to focus on environment because that is directly linked with your manufacturing efficiencies and manufacturing cost. So that balance uh you need to achieve. Yes. So that that's how this whole thing of sustainability started. Then we we were rated one of the best in the industry by K edge almost four years back and then we were rated pretty well by some of the business world like India's most sustainable companies. So you know once you see success you start getting more and more interested into that and that's how things keep kept on moving. Yeah. So I think uh we have also realized and we have read uh everywhere. So most of the companies doesn't realize this. They think to achieve carbon reduction or go for sustainability it means cost increase which is not no it's not in most of the cases I think at least in 50 to 60% supply chain you can reduce cost accompanied with carbon absolutely absolutely absolutely so uh now uh I think if you look back to your younger version uh any piece of advice that you would like to give to young when we when I see a lot of young guys which we we we hire every year. We try to develop the team, keep keep talent pool alive. I I see this generation is very very smart. Very smart. Their their innovative skills, their you know eagerness to learn is very strong. My suggestion or guideline to all these youngster is that pick up a goal and follow it to the core. Mhm. Because you take one excellence model 99 around it will get driven automatically. Correct? I I very clearly remember and I I very strongly believe that if we had not started water conservation or water excellence as one of the thought we would not have gone into energy excellence. Yes. If we had not taken energy excellence as the journey, we would not have gone on to sustainability journey for other stuff. M so it started with water and then it moved on to social cause. It moved on to environmental cause. It moved on to energy cause. It moved on to cost. It moved on to biomass. It moved on to virtually everything because keep one excellence goal in your mind. I agree. I mean even if you look at all these excellence model of CI and GFQM and European models, they all talk about excellence. Excellence. Compliance time is gone. Compliance. If you work on compliance in the industry or for that matter anywhere in the life any sphere no it doesn't work you have to look for excellence excellence and drive with one rest 99 will get driven automatically completely agree that that's the thought which I have worked with and that's what I would like to tell all the youngsters to continue that's what I tell my daughter Mhm. Correct. And uh I I think that's that's what it that's how it works. So now taking forward from there uh so CCT scheme is already kind of announced for few of the companies inside India, Indian government and what do you think uh how is it going to control the complete sustainability environment? How as an Indian companies we are prepared for the same? Is it an ambitious project from the Indian government or really something is happening on the ground? Any point of view on that? See, I have been following CCTS uh since July 23 when it was first launched. Prior to CCTS, the this scheme was called PAT. Okay. Which was called perform, achieve and trade. Okay. They were nothing but energy efficiency index for each plant of different industries. And people who achieved that they were given advantage. Mhm. And people who were behind that they had to buy that certificate of energy efficiency and cover that. Now if you go through the CCTS scheme and the details background on that you do see there is a huge amount of improvement in terms of gigatons of carbon dioxide reduced through energy efficiency improvement. Now the new version of the old energy efficiency scheme PAT is called now CCTS. Okay. Now in in in India the top 26 sectors of industries uh only 13 sectors were covered to start with and tal industry was not part of it but tire industry is not considered to be a a strong high emission industry. Mhm. So out of 13 also only four sectors which is basically cement alkali paper uh paper and steel steel these four sectors have been covered uh for the CCTS targets. Now all the individual plants have been given targets. Okay. Okay. and and then the there is a registry which is opened up while you have to register with that and if you are able to achieve those GG emissions you get uh renewable certificates or energy certific or the the GG certificate carbon certificates carbon credits as they call it one carbon credit is one ton of uh CO2 and it is likely to get more and more functionalized probably by next financial year for these four sectors as far as the remaining industry is concerned the target development ment process is still on and will take couple of more years as far as tire industry is concerned the first branch of the development uh target is just started probably sometime in 2728 or 26 27 we might see some movement now there is uh one I I've gone through there are more than 600 different industry plants they've taken from aluminium steel and chloralk and paper and all that The targets for each plant are different. Okay. Okay. My approach slightly would be different on this. If I know that today industry say especially hard to aid sectors like steel, aluminium or alkali or paper or or cement. Right. We have enough knowledge and enough talent in house to understand what kind of emission do you need or are mandatory to be produced for adding value to this particular raw material to convert it to cement. So you come out with one target. Now if you see six plants same target those six plants have different targets. Okay. If I am inefficient, I am not disincentivized for being inefficient. Got it. Okay. I am being incentivized for improving my efficiency. Fair. But if I am already very bad, target should I will remain bad for next 5 years and will never be meeting the top line. Mhm. So I think we need to be little bit more pushy in order to get everybody on the same pace. Kind of plus minus variation. I can understand. But I've seen the variations which are varying from 0.5 to 1.5. Okay. That kind of variation and I'm not talking one industry. I'm talking about multiple industry. Okay. And it it can be understood that maybe the environment or the raw material or the process which is being followed by that plant is different. Mhm. Or the plant is very inefficient or was whatever reasons could be there. But then when do we bring that plant back in line with the top of the line? There should be some benchmark. There should be some benchmark. There should be some timeline. There should be some you know either you give a grace that you start monitoring CCTS of this plant from this date. Till that time you have time to improve. Mhm. Fine. It needs investment, it needs process change, it needs equipment change, it needs material change. I don't know whatever. This is one area which to me needs to be addressed. Mhm. Second most important part we are still not talking about the energy. Okay. Today also we are working on coal based power. uh see we we as as economy of the country are still coal based economy and that's not under our control and lot of great work to and and kudos to all the people who are involved including the current government the way the job has been done in terms of renewable energy no question about it it's a huge job and wonderful work wonderful but here again if we have 20 30 states every state goes in a different direction ah the distribution companies, the state 3D boards, they are all running losses and they want to make sure the renewable available to the consumer is not at the right price. Okay. Isn't it? And and they have definitely their own reasons and very well understood that they have reasons. But at the end of the day, if you look at country after so many years of of the progress which we have done, we're talking about 500 gawatt by 2030. Our our last 5 years, 6 years record has not been more than 14 to 15 megawatt. 15 gawatt. Mhm. So if that speed, how will we go? Mhm. There there are big big big plans. The grid availability especially the renewal extraction capabilities of the grid are a big question mark. the the CTU is working is still lot of uh you know every day you see a new regulation every day you see new regulation especially the states like Udisha Andra the the Telangana which are now coming up more with the renewable you know promoting more renewables the regulation is still not uniform across states you have CC But you have all the ERC's in the states as well. So regulation is not very very strong. So that's an area which it further needs. To me CCTS will have to be promoted more aggressively and the speed of setting up targets and monitoring will have to improve because carbon pricing globally if you see has yielded result. Mhm. Is it it is satisfactory or it is uh customary? That's beyond the debate point right now. But yes, it has yielded result. Even internal carbon pricing a lot of people follow and that also works because it see unless you add a value to the emissions which you generate and uh do not balance it with the output which you are generating you know nobody will understand it. No. And there is a there is a huge line of industries which is MSME which is still missing which still miss which we see these 13 14 15 16 sectors if you look at the MSME still is uh is not in the picture. Yes. Whereas which is a major generator scope 3 is mainly from there. So scope 3 is another story. My views on scope 3 are very different. Okay. I we can discuss that as a full chapter. Okay. See whatever is my scope three is somebody scope one scope scope one is scope two. Yes. So if you focus on scope one scope two completely then my scope three will automat see people like automotive all the car industry automotive industries 97% of their emissions are scope 3. Mhm. Because they only assemble they only assemble paint shop and molding and all that. So if I have to reduce my scope one scope two the automatically my scope three for for car industry is lower. Mhm. Isn't it? Yes. So so the current focus on sustainability. Mhm. Scope 3 is virtually like 90% of the total emission. Mhm. Which nobody really knows who's controlling who. Yes. That's the that's why MSME is I told most of them. Nobody really knows. See 15 categories. M if you look at even the let's talk about tires for a moment if you look at LCA of tires it says 83% of emissions happen during the use phase okay I had a detailed discussion with the sphere and chakra both who are doing this LCA study I said the 83% of emission which you are saying happens in the use phase is not tire emission it's not under your control even by GHG protocol. I am not supposed to report that emission because that's category 12 of scope 3 which is also category 12 of scope 3 for car manufacturers and it is supposed to be reported by them because it is an engine emission. It's not a tire emission. Correct. So why are we wasting time on that? M yes we as tire people must reduce the rolling resistance must reduce the weight to make sure that the emissions or the longevity of the fuel is reduced. Mhm. Oh sorry increased increased so that you can run more in the in the same same kilometer to that extent the role of tire industry in terms of design is fine but when tire is wearing you don't create emissions. Mhm. You create VR particles which is another subject al together now isn't it? Yes. So CCTS is a good scheme but to me it's moving very very slow and has to move forward a little faster with all other sectors getting covered especially energy. Yes. Yes. Completely agree. And uh do you see a role of uh digital in this complete uh sustainability angle? So what is the role of digital technologies? Maybe the buzzwords recently are AI. I I I have a very strong opinion that digitalization what is digitalization? Let's let's understand for a moment. Yes. You know I look at a meter it's it say even if a temperature indicator a simple temperature dial indicator okay I have a dial temperature indicator. Every time I pass that machine, I see that temperature and I have a record in my mind that I saw it at this level. Okay. Then the next level of visibility came in that you mark the digital indicators with yellow, green and red. Mhm. So whenever I see it in the red, I react. When it is green and yellow, I don't react. Mhm. So it was an improvement over no indication versus with some indication when do I need to take the action. Yes. Isn't it? M now I convert the same signal into a digital format. Now I don't see it when I go on the machine physically. I can see it on my mobile as to when it is moving. Going to the next step, it gives me the alarm or notification trigger. So making it visualize. Mhm. And increasing the awareness and making it more detailed, you know, granular. Granular. It's visualization. Yes. And that is definitely beneficial in whatever way you do decision making. But the challenges are and this is how the electronic companies survive that you buy an equipment today they promise that this is digitalized this can be seen here this can be seen there. By the time you are fully aware of the advantages of that tool the tool is obsolete. And then to upgrade it you need to spend more money. Mhm. So there have to be some kind of controls brought in to all the service providers that if you have given a technology support it at least for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years whatever that time period is or whatever the life of that is and if there are upgrades coming in please provide upgrades. Yes. At at very very reasonable or low cost. Mhm. Because industry which are capital intensive it's not easy to invest money. Correct. Isn't it? I mean you operate at very thin margins. You don't operate at the the digital tool manufacturer margins. You don't operate like you know all all the electronic component abitas and hardcore manufacturing abas are very very different. Mhm. So some something of that kind needs to be done and digitalization is must. More you can visualize data, more you can visualize what's happening inside the machine, more actions you can take, more improvements you can make and what you can measure you can always improve. Definitely definitely that's what uh our approach to most of the industries are we tell them you know and real time it should be available. Absolutely. uh you don't know whatever actions you are taking whether it's giving you real time result or not. True. So first thing is knowing and measuring and putting it in a record which is always real time. Absolutely. And then taking actions based on those facts and datas whatever is collecting. So it's it adds to your decision making and continuous improvement. Yeah. So last question on this section uh is uh any uh so sustainability report might be coming. So I was just looking uh at the website. So this year report I think is still to come. Yeah. Probably today or tomorrow. Yeah. Uh some uh nuggets or some quick things you can tell about how it has progressed. Uh are you kind of satisfied or some uh examples that you can share with the audience so that they can also improve on that line. See reporting is one part of the story which is which is basically nothing but disclosures. Disclosures. Yes. U if you see we published our first sustainability report in 2016 17 when people were not even talking about it industry we were the first to do that. Mhm. 16 17 18 19 we did. Mhm. 9 2021 onward we combined to a integrated report. We uh we started giving all the sustainability data into the integrated report. We have been certifying our reports right from day one by third party uh audited and assured. Mhm. Till last year or till 2425 we were doing that. Now this year when we were making our final report and the requirements of GR and all the BRS requirements were becoming so thick that the report was going very very long. So we said okay we will keep concise indic integrated report for the year and have a separate section of sustainability report printed or at least web hosted to make sure that our disclosers are quite in sync with the all all the regulating standards. The standards are also going under a lot of change lot and especially the governance and social sections the kind of requirements they have is huge. Mhm. If you follow the nine principles of BRS are also okay they have tableated everything very nicely but that is not meeting the G standard. G standards for each of their subsection 200, 300, 400. There are multiple areas where they want these reportings to be declared and obviously we want to comply and continues to the objective is what the objective is that today if I able to measure certain KPIs I'll be able to improve on them tomorrow. That's the objective. It's not that I reported it once and gone. No, that's not the point. M I mean it is coming to a point where gender diversity in the board level in the senior executive level in the worker level in the management staff how is it moving and how is it progressing? Mhm. What kind of wage percentages are paid to the females all these details which are going very very granular as I was mentioning that last year we had about 179 odd indicators in our report. This year our sustain report will have over over 500 600 indicators different indicators. Now the objective is not to create these indicators and make it complex but it does become complex. Uh purpose is to assign people involve all the people stakeholders and start monitoring them. Mhm. environment part gets handled very well with the with the manufacturing and all plants are very well charged and all plants are fully informed motivated and it's a you know it's a continuous improvement journey which continues happen but social governance is another pillar which really demands a lot of effort and time and you start monitoring it very very clearly in even your attrition natural attrition retired attrition force attrition I mean every data is required by J. Uhhuh. So it's very very detailed. I I would uh suggest that you can look at it maybe by tomorrow day after it'll be on the web. Definitely you can look at it. Yeah. Uh and we definitely look into uh so last year reports and every year reports of uh JK organization because you guys have already sewn the result and you get to learn a lot from these reports. What actions has been taken? What is the result and different things so now uh let's come to the last section. Uh I think uh it's mostly rapid fire. Okay. Right. Uh uh so yeah. So we'll start. So sustainability in one word for you. To me it's uh balance. Balance and harmony. H correct. The most underrated sustainability practice in manufacturing. Continuous improvement. Yes. Nobody talks about it and is the biggest achiever. Yes. And ESZ is uh compliance or culture, right? If you stay on compliance, you will never achieve it. That's what you It has to be culture. It has to be culture. One technology you believe will transform uh this manufacturing into green manufacturing kind of thing. See today as it looks like renewable energy seems to be going very very strong. Uh storage is one technology which is working out which will change lot of advantage to the grid structure and all that. Another technology which I I'm looking forward to to be commercially viable and uh come is the carbon storage carbon capture and storage. The these two areas will transform the energy sector very very strongly. Mhm. And as on date it is not commercially viable but that's a technology which I'm looking forward to. any one uh sustainability trend you think is overhyped or kind of buzzword only not working? CCTS. CCTS. Okay. Yes. So it has not done the desired result which you would expect it to be. I mean you look at EUDR, you look at CBAM, you look at so many practices. Okay. There are these are kind of pushes or drivers to to start pushing you in that direction. M but he results we'll have to still wait and see. Okay. So uh you told you read lot of books uh and maybe uh podcast and videos also. So any one or two in your mind which is good for uh people who are interested in sustainability any book I in fact right now I'm reading one one one very very strong book called draw down okay draw down by Paul Hawkins. wrote down this is a compilation of 100 sustainability solutions okay which were proposed by the European and and some US experts basically environment scientists scientists uh looks to be a beautiful book I've done probably one quarter of that but looks very very nice I'd suggest read but there are a lot of podcasts there are a lot of papers which keep coming in so keep reading that we'll put that in the link book name and yeah draw down it's there very uh the toughest sustainability metric to track scope three. Scope three. Yes. Yeah. You It's is more of a pain than really the tracking. You really don't know what are you trying to control? Yes. Yes. Uh a company uh inside India, outside India accept JK organization definitely that you admire for their ESV and their work that they have done in this field. See I was looking at this um even even just three four days back business world's most sustainable companies we've been participating and we were top 30 just two years back we were targeting to be this year also Tata as a group done fantastic work in that even Mahindra and done a wonderful work on on their sustainability activities Tata aluminum Tata steel Tata chemicals they've done wonderful work another company which I'm very strongly fond of is ITC. Yes. Right. Uh they they they're not very much visible in terms of accessibility reporting and all that because their report is inclusing of multiple sectors. But the kind of work they do at the ground level on farmers and all that that's very uh very interesting. I think uh that would my last question. It was we can wrap it up. Uh thank you. Thank you very much for having me. It was very very entertaining at least uh what I can from my point of view we get to learn lot of new nuggets some ground accents ideas I think audience would have also enjoyed a lot we'll share few of the uh summary and also the book details uh over the we have discussed over the podcast thank you once again for giving your time thank you very